Ki Sung: Traci Thomas, you learn loads of books, and in your podcast, you additionally speak about a e book you’re studying with your twin boys – the minis as you name them. I don’t know when you’re performed with that e book, however inform me about your expertise studying it with your children.
Traci Thomas: Yes. So I name my children the mini stacks. They are virtually 5 now, similar twin boys. And we’re studying Charlotte’s Web, which was one in all my favourite books as a child. And we started studying it out loud, chapter by chapter. We’re not tremendous far. And there’s about, I believe, 35 chapters within the e book. So we’re round chapter 5 proper now. Some nights we simply learn an image e book. But it’s been actually particular as a result of I wasn’t certain they have been sufficiently old to learn a chapter e book. And they’re loving it. When they’re on the finish of every chapter, I say to them, So what occurred? And they’ll say they have been going to eliminate the pig as a result of he was small, however the lady saved them. So it’s been actually enjoyable to form of hearken to them as they absorb one in all my absolute favourite books.
Ki Sung: And why is it a favourite of yours? What is your reminiscence of Charlotte’s Web?
Traci Thomas: So my reminiscence as a toddler of Charlotte’s Web was simply that. I beloved the characters. I beloved Charlotte, I beloved Wilbur. I beloved the mouse a lot. The rat who eats the Smorgasbord, which is like my favourite phrase that I realized from a e book as a toddler. And I additionally beloved the friendship on the heart of it. And then I went again and reread it as an grownup a couple of years in the past. And I’ve determined it’s this nice feminist manifesto, which I used to be type of stunned by in my rereading, how a lot I used to be impacted by Charlotte and Fern and the way they received stuff performed.
Ki Sung: I’m going to have to return and skim that e book with that with a watch on that as nicely. So thanks for placing that out. So Tracy, what do you look for in a kids’s e book? Are you taking a look at Amazon rankings buzz from a high ten listing or fascinated with the classics?
Traci Thomas: So once I go to the bookstore to purchase kids’s books, I’m at all times asking the booksellers what they’re into. I learn largely grownup books, however clearly now that I’ve kids, I do learn a fairly a bit of kids’s books and it’s not my, you realize, my lane professionally. So I’m counting on librarians, booksellers. There’s an excellent Instagram account known as Here Wee Read. It’s run by Charnaie Gordon, and he or she focuses on studying kids’s books which might be by numerous ranges of authors, whether or not that’s racially skill, smart, gender, all of this stuff. And I depend on her loads to form of put me on to stuff that’s coming or stuff that’s model new. I’m hardly ever taking a look at Amazon lists. I’m largely counting on those who I do know in my group, whether or not that’s a librarian or a bookseller or pals.
Ki Sung: Great. And I believe you’re a millennial.
Traci Thomas: I’m.
Ki Sung: I’m in Gen X.
Traci Thomas: Okay.
Ki Sung: And as dad and mom, you realize, we get to make up for our personal childhoods, Right?
Traci Thomas: Yeah.
Ki Sung: And at the very least, like, attempt to verify our children have what was lacking from our personal upbringing. That’s why I purchased loads of Linda Sue Park books. How are you doing that with the e book selections you make?
Traci Thomas: That’s so attention-grabbing. You know, I. I had a extremely pretty childhood. My dad and mom did a extremely good job of studying to me and in addition at all times studying round me. So I don’t actually give it some thought as making up for my childhood. But I do suppose that, you realize, as a I’m type of an elder millennial, I assume we have been we have been studying loads of books that have been canonical that have been written by white males and didn’t deal with the tales of individuals from marginalized backgrounds. And so I do suppose that I’m at all times type of wanting in the direction of that. A factor that I’ve seen with kids’s books, particularly the image books, is that generally you’ll get an image e book and also you’ll have a look at the duvet and there might be a Black little one on the duvet. And I’m like, my gosh, a e book a couple of Black child by Black individuals. And then you definately flip to the again to see who the authors are and there’s no image. And then you definately Google them and also you’re like, these are white individuals writing books about Black kids, which isn’t inherently dangerous or unsuitable. But it’s an attention-grabbing development that I’ve seen within the kids’s e book house as a result of there’s this want for numerous books. So that’s one thing that I’m actually extra targeted on, is ensuring that I’m discovering tales which might be, you realize, personal voices tales, tales about teams of individuals by these teams of individuals.
Ki Sung: And I used to know the stat off the highest of my head. I believe it was University of Wisconsin. There’s a kids’s e book group there. And that they had a stat that confirmed I believe it was just like the racial ethnic breakdown of kids’s e book characters and that animals had an enormous illustration, whereas, like individuals of colour, have been extremely marginal, marginalized in comparison with the remainder of the inhabitants.
Traci Thomas: And additionally, even when the when the protagonists of kids’s books are non-humans, they’re virtually at all times male. They’re virtually at all times like boy dragons or boy donkeys or boy rocks or regardless of the the item is or the animal is. And in order that’s one other factor that’s type of missing. I don’t have a research for that. This is extra of simply one thing that I’ve seen as I’m studying and I’m seeing the pronouns and I’m like, why is that this unicorn a boy? Why is that this, you realize, grocery retailer cart a boy?
Ki Sung: I hope that group explores that as nicely. So thanks for pointing that out. Obviously, you like books. So am I right in assuming you’re stockpiling books for when your children are older say like center grades? Or do you’ve like a protracted, very lengthy want listing in your notes?
Traci Thomas: I’ve this group known as the Stacks Pack, and there’s so many great educators and oldsters in that group and we’ve a thread on our Discord for children e book suggestions. So I’ve been paying attention to the center grade recommendations, and I do know as I get nearer and nearer, I might be including to this listing. But it’s a reasonably small listing up to now, I’ve to say.
Ki Sung: What what books are you pondering of? What, what popped out that made it to your listing?
Traci Thomas: Jason Reynolds, is my fave. I really like him. He’s been on the present a couple of instances, most just lately in November. And he’s received this e book Look Both Ways, which I’ve learn, however I can not wait to learn it to my kids. It’s a it’s a brief story assortment, actually, about ten completely different tales about children who he calls the walkers. And these are children who stroll to highschool. And it’s all about their journeys after faculty headed house. And it’s so candy and so tender and it made me cry, which is tough to do. So that’s one. And he’s received a couple of different center grade books that I’m enthusiastic about. I do know Nick Stone has some center grade books that I need to try as nicely.
Ki Sung: And what about like after they’re older, like youngsters? What what what are you fascinated with for youngsters?
Traci Thomas: Yeah. So I undoubtedly have learn much more Y.A. books for that type of older teen age vary. And you realize, as I discussed earlier than, I’m at all times actually enthusiastic about Own Voices tales as a result of I believe as a guardian I can solely accomplish that a lot and I can solely present a lot data and I can attempt to train them how one can be empathetic and present them, you realize, my experiences. But I believe particularly as they get into that teen age, counting on the books to form of open up their eyes to what’s greater and what’s potential. So I’m at all times taking a look at personal voices, tales, particularly at that age group.
But I even have a ardour for nonfiction and there’s not loads of nonfiction for younger grownup readers. There’s type of some nonfiction stuff like National Geographic-y form of books for that center grade age of like, right here’s each reality it’s essential find out about a swordfish. But when it will get to be that center grade and so they’re wanting for extra of a story nonfiction, there’s not a ton. But a number of the books that I’ve flagged that I actually, actually hope my children might be thinking about, there’s a e book known as The 57 Bus by Dashka Slater, which is a couple of crime that occurred in my hometown of Oakland, California, the place a toddler lit one other little one who was non-binary on hearth on the 57 bus. And it’s all about type of what occurred between these two children, but in addition about gender and about race and type of sociopolitical implications of the geography of Oakland. And it’s a extremely nice e book so I’m hoping my children will learn that one.
Ki Sung: The one factor I appreciated about that e book is it’s set in a spot that you’re acquainted with. And, you realize, possibly that’s one thing that individuals can get from native library or bookseller suggestions, you realize, books that college students can see the place they dwell within the story.
Traci Thomas: Yeah, yeah, for certain. I imply, different books, different nonfiction that pops into my head for younger adults is there’s an creator named Paula Yoo, and he or she simply launched a e book known as Rising from the Ashes, which is all concerning the 1992 uprisings in Los Angeles after the beating of Rodney King and the acquittal of the individuals who beat him. And she wrote one other e book a couple of hate crime that befell within the 80s in Michigan known as, it’s about Vincent Chen and it’s known as From a Whisper to a Rallying Cry. And each of those books are such lovely historical past, narrative, nonfiction. They are for younger readers. I devoured each of them and was simply so taken by them. And I actually, actually hope and in addition these even have actually robust senses of place, Los Angeles and in Detroit. And additionally they actually contextualize the time. And I believe particularly, you realize, as I grow old and I start to examine historical past that befell earlier than I used to be born and I believe, wow, how come no person taught me about this? I hope that my children will discover books like these for themselves to study instances earlier than they have been alive.
Ki Sung: Tracy, you’ve interviewed a whole bunch of authors, possibly 1000’s, and I’m certain like regardless of the style, the subject of their experiences with studying, you realize, as they have been kids rising up comes up. What are some books or experiences you’ve heard, recognized which have impressed these authors to be artistic and share their tales with the world?
Traci Thomas: Yeah, I’ve interviewed lots of people. Not fairly a thousand, not but, however possibly we’ll get there. One of the issues that I discover actually attention-grabbing concerning the present and what retains me doing it each single week for the final seven, virtually seven years, is that writers come to the work in so many alternative methods and so they have such completely different relationships to books, which has truly made me really feel higher about being a guardian, pondering, Well, if my child isn’t into studying now, that doesn’t imply that they’re not ever going to get there.
Someone like Jason Reynolds, he famously has talked about how he’d by no means learn a e book till he was an grownup. He has gone again since and skim. And then there’s additionally Mitchell Jackson, who’s a Pulitzer Prize winner. He additionally mentioned he by no means learn books rising up and he’s now, you realize, reads books as an grownup, however he reads them in a extremely completely different means. He’s studying them for craft and taking a look at it in a means that possibly it isn’t. He mentioned he’s by no means learn a e book for pleasure. That’s how he mentioned it, which I assumed was actually attention-grabbing.
And then on the flip facet, you realize, there’s a whole bunch of authors who’ve been on the present who talked about being voracious readers as kids who’ve such robust recollections of going to the library as children. I’m pondering of Professor Eve Dunbar, who’s a trainer of African-American literature at Vassar, and he or she talked about how the library mainly raised her. Her dad and mom took her there as a substitute of getting her a babysitter. And she would sit and he or she would learn. And she talked about studying so many books for kids. But additionally as she received older, discovering a love for grownup books, which I might actually relate to as a result of I learn loads of grownup books as a child and I discovered a lot pleasure in each the type of taboo nature of that, but in addition within the skill to type of increase what I used to be allowed to learn. So many authors have talked about loving Charlotte’s Web alongside with me, but in addition the books of Roald Dahl have been actually impactful for individuals.
People have talked about studying the identical books again and again and over. This thought of a consolation learn which was type of overseas to me. I don’t actually reread books from my childhood. And individuals additionally discuss loads on my present about hating the books they’re assigned as children, hating books like Catcher within the Rye or Moby Dick. And I believe that’s actually enjoyable and thrilling, too, as a result of I hope that younger individuals really feel snug in having robust opinions about literature, whether or not it’s issues that they love or hate and that, you realize, the adults of their lives, the academics, the dad and mom, caregivers, whoever, are encouraging them to have robust and full opinions about books.
Ki Sung: If you have been to concentrate on the love of studying, the place do you suppose that comes from primarily based on all these interviews you’ve performed, like, the place does that spark come from?
Traci Thomas: I believe it comes from loads of completely different locations for completely different individuals. I believe some individuals love getting misplaced within the story. I believe some individuals love the potential of one thing they’ve by no means heard of, like that unfolding in entrance of their eyes as they’re studying. I believe some individuals love phrases like actually simply from a younger age, love sentences and the best way that phrases really feel and transfer and are capable of talk issues. And I believe for some individuals, books are a method to construct group, proper? Like attending to know your librarian or getting to speak about books with a fellow classmate or within the classroom, attending to have these debates. So I believe it could come from loads of completely different locations, and I believe that’s good. I believe that generally we get slowed down on this concept that books are one factor for all people, and I believe that the love of it could come from so many alternative locations and that it could change over time.
Ki Sung: And I believe that’s why you’ve inspired, you realize, manga and audio books, other ways of interacting with textual content.
Traci Thomas: Yeah, for certain. I do know that individuals have loads of robust opinions about what’s studying and what isn’t studying. I consider that it’s all studying. I consider that it’s all good. I believe we’ve to fulfill, particularly for younger individuals, I believe we’ve to fulfill children the place they’re. There’s loads of dialog proper now round children aren’t studying sufficient. They’re not studying full size novels at school. There was simply an article about that. And I believe a part of it’s that A, their dad and mom, us, we’re on our telephones on a regular basis. Why would they suppose that studying is one thing enjoyable to do, at any time when they give the impression of being over at their caregivers and so they’re on a tool, proper? So that’s half one. And I believe half two is that we yuck their yum. We inform them that graphic novel is that’s not likely studying. Those are simply photos. And I believe that’s so dismissive and disrespectful not solely to children and their style, but in addition to the authors and illustrators who create these unbelievable books. I believe many children, all of us have completely different studying types. Some persons are auditory. Some individuals can study very well with their eyes. And I believe limiting studying to being one thing that may solely be performed off of a web page, out of a bodily factor is is just not honest to children who possibly don’t prefer to learn off of the web page, however then found they love books if they’ve the chance to hearken to them. So I encourage all of it. I believe it’s all studying and I believe that oldsters generally have to simply let their children like what they like as a result of as soon as they uncover that they do like graphic novels, that’s going to open up the world to them in an entire new means. And possibly it’ll cause them to learn books that don’t have illustrations, or possibly it’ll cause them to discover much more thrilling graphic books as they grow old, and that that complete style type of develops and matures for grownup readers.
Ki Sung: Last query. Is there a e book you hope somebody will get for you this vacation season?
Traci Thomas: My gosh. You’re asking the query that everybody in my household desires to know.
There are, the true reply is not any. I’ve so many books in my house and I don’t want anyone to get me a e book. But I really like cookbooks and I don’t cowl loads of cookbooks on my podcast, so I don’t get loads of cookbooks despatched to me. So I believe that if somebody in my household went out and was cookbook purchasing, possibly they may discover me one thing that will be actually thrilling to me. Maybe there’s a e book, an older e book by Claire Saffitz known as Dessert Person that I’ve at all times wished, and I simply by no means purchase it for myself as a result of once more, I don’t want extra books and I in all probability don’t have to be spending time all day baking. But that’s a that’s a cookbook that I type of sneakily would love.
Ki Sung: Can I make a cookbook advice? Yes. To you. Okay. So America’s Test Kitchen has an excellent line of kids’s cookbooks. And I discover the recipes loads less complicated. Like, you realize, and findable. Right? It’s narrowed all the way down to, I don’t know, like 150, a pair hundred recipes. Whereas like, the grownup cookbooks are simply large and it’s an excessive amount of. It’s overwhelming. And like the youngsters stuff, you realize, the parts are good and it’s not fancy. It will get the job performed. So America’s Test Kitchen Kids part.
Traci Thomas: Okay, I’ve to let you know this. Those cookbooks are these books have been bandied about in our Discord below the kids’s e book advice tab. Someone was asking for cookbooks for children. So I’m telling you, the stacks pack my group. They, they know a very good children e book. So I really like that you just’re vouching for them. Now. I’m like, okay, I’ve to get it.
Ki Sung: Highly suggest. All proper. Tracy, thanks a lot for sharing about your podcast, your experiences and a bit of bit about your creator interviews that I hope everybody goes and take a hearken to.
Traci Thomas: Thank you a lot for having me.
